a new hope
Ladies and gentleman, as I write this I must warn you, I should probably be doing my Judaism homework. Even though I am quite behind in my readings for that great class, frankly I have to get this off my chest for reasons that will become immediatly apparent.
Last night at Visions (visionsministries.org) Mike Thompson gave this really incredible talk about how a relationship with God is great because you can have issues with God. God is this real person, and with any relationship, you can talk to the guy and even get in fights because you see things differently. God doesn't mind (Don't get me wrong, he's usually right, being omniscient and all) but it's not like God has this power trip thing where you can't argue or express your frustration with the guy. He loves us and wants to communicate with us and sometimes, when we are most frustrated is when we communicate most honestly. He sacrificed a lot for that type of honesty (namely His Son and sometimes our good opinion of Him). He doesn't mind though, because He loves us and wants to connect with us on this deep, real, intimate level. He's God and that's one of the many reasons why He is Wonderfull.
But anyway, what bugged me is why Mike was frustrated. Simply put, with my 10 hour a week job at 6.50 per hour, I make more money than Visions. That's pathetic.
The thing is, it's not because people don't care or attendence is low. We run more people on a weekly basis than most church youth groups. Nor is the problem a lack of Spiritual fruit or real ministry. That very night, not an hour before worship started, a girl (and I believe her boyfriend) got saved and turned their lives to the Great Romance. I have a friend who is being delivered from Homosexuality because of this place. I've seen people healed at Visions-- recently. Prophecy happens there, (I could tell you eerie stories) . Ministry happens at Visions night club in a big way and it happens often. There are thousands of people in the greater Lansing Area who wouldn't be serving Christ if Visions didn't exist. Not only that, but families have been started from people who met at Visions. Those children wouldn't exist and wouldn't move on to impact others for the Gospel if we didn't meet every friday at 2004 N. Larch street at 10:00. (that was a subtle plug, people--- COME!).
Anyway, a group like this shouldn't have to be worried about money all the time. Mike Thompson, one of the most amazing disciplers on the planet, should have enough money to support his children. He might read this and would probably kill me if he did. I don't care. Frankly, as the body of Christ, we aren't doing what we should to support those who are working in our midst. The Bible says that a minister of the Gospel should be supported by the preaching of that Gospel (Matthew 10). Paul insisted that the ministers of the Gospel had a right to this support and could be waived by the minister only if he or she didn't want to burden the people (1 Cor 9:1-14). However, the key word here, is that this support is a RIGHT!!!! A minister of the Gospel should not have to struggle to put food on the table. He or she shouldn't have to divide their time at a menial job because the body of Christ is too freaking cheap. It's stupendous how ridicoulous this is. The servants of Christ should have to go hungry and if they do, it's because the body of Christ has shamed itself and not taken care of those who are most precious to it. I am running out of ways to say how ridicoulous this is. It's shameful!!!
The fact is, I used to be a little hesitant about going into full-time ministry because I felt like I wasn't able to trust God to provide the support. Now I feel like my faith is actually to a level where that wouldn't be a problem-- I feel as though I could trust God for my daily bread. What irks me though is that I'm still scared to go that route because I don't trust people. God can prompt us and prod us till He is blue in the face. But It doesn't matter what He does, cause He's too much of a gentleman to make us do it. He always asks and only that. And I get the feeling that we in the middle of our suburban Christianity, consistantly tell Him no and that we don't care. People (myself included... really I am just as much a culprit as all of us) won't listen because we are to comfortable or it hurts to bad to sacrifice for those who minister among us.
I don't know about you all, but I am ready to listen to God. Don't worry, Mom, I am not going to give every cent I have to Visions. (Mainly because we have already established the Church's inability to support people-- not God's inability, the church's. I need to eat too.) It's unwise to give money you don't have. I know that now. Plus it's wrong to give out of compulsion or guilt and we must check our motives before we give a cent.
But I am going to give my tithe and my time and maybe a little extra as the Lord leads. I am going to get my feet on the ground and start writing and making noise for the cause of Christ. I am going to start disseminating my rambling, badly spelled rants on the internet until somebody listens. Mainly because the only hope this thing called following Christ has is that people start owning it, not because they are guilted or compeled, but because they love God. It bears repeating. OWN YOUR CHRISTIANITY! STEP UP AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS NOW!
But to beat a dead horse, allow me to end with this...
"By this we know love, because He laid down His life for us. And we also ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. But whoever has this world's goods, and sees his brother in need, and shuts up his heart from him, how does the love of God abide in him? My little Children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him.
For if our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart and he knows all things. Beloved, If our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. And Whatever we ask we recieve from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those thing that are pleasing in His sight. And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. " - The Apostle John (1 John 3:16-23).
Own your relationship with God but don't let your heart condemn you. God is greater than your heart and He knows all things.
~prayerfully in war
Daniel Gabriel Allegri
posted by Daniel @ 11:09 下午
6 comments
6 Comments:
Different ideas have been tossed around about how to make money for Visions in ministry team meetings over the last several years. In the past, different ideas got tossed around: a five dollar cover charge, keeping a cafe open during the day and making money off of coffee, having more concerts, moving to a bigger venue, having "dance night", having all of the ministry team members tithe, etc.
A lot of objections to all those things has come up. For one, ministry team members are typically college students who each make $2,000.00 max a year. Even if everyone tithed, we're still only talking about an extra $8,000.00 annually for the club. The rent is $12,000 a year, utilities are expensive, and if we pay Mike $30,000.00 a year, the $8,000.00 doesn't really stretch cross the gap. And don't Ministry Team members have an obligation to give to their own church as well? So if we split our tithes, that's only $4,000.00 a year coming in from the ministry team. Not cool.
The other idea was to hit up the ministy team alumni. You know, the people who were once part of the ministry team, who gained a spouse or something during their time on the ministry team, and now that they actually have real jobs, can they please give to Visions?
Mike did organize a tenth aniversary party for the former ministry team members, so that he could make his "Give Us Money!" speech. He ended up feeling shady and convicted about it and instead said "scratch this. It could be ugly." He prayed for all the alumni instead and threw a great party. So that didn't go through.
I dunno. Visions has all the equipment to make money off of coffee, and a Christian cafe would be awesome, but to actually make that happen, we'd need a new location. Talks about moving have permeated the last five years, but for all the talk and the approval of the board, the move still has just not happened. *sigh*.
I like the idea of a cover charge. Kids have five bucks to spend at the movies. They'll want to spend it to hang out at Visions, play pool, and see their friends. If eighty people are there on a friday night, that would be an extra $400.00 a night that comes in. It would pretty much cover rent and utilities for us. But Mike doesn't like the idea of charging people to hear the gospel. He won't pass a hat either for the same reason.
Other ideas: renting it out as a venue on other nights, having more raves and charging on Saturdays for club night, renting it to a church on Sundays that needs a building, allowing smaller youth groups to converge there on Wednesdays and charging their churches a fee...these things have all been discussed, but no one has actually taken the initiative to make them happen.
The other subject that's been tossed around about Mike's financial situation that furrows the eyebrows is the fact that his wife has a Master's Degree in Physical Therapy, and has the earning potential to bring in a good $70,000.00 a year if she worked full time. However, she really wants to stay home and homeschool the kids while Mike does the Visions thing, so she only works part time (I think 15 hours a week). I'm not criticizing her desire to stay home. Staying home and being a mom is noble. But you gotta face the fact: the Thompsons are not a destitute family with no options for income. If they're so broke, Micky can just work more and the kids can go to Holt Public Schools (you can't really ask for a finer school system anyway). I think this knowledge makes people a little less sympathetic to their financial situation. They've made a choice with how they're going to school their kids that has an obvious effect on their income. I think that the sacrifice is probably worth it...but the ability to do homeschooling is a luxury, not a right and I don't think Mike should be blaming Visions for his stress over finances because Micky won't work more. Ya know?
Other issues that have come up: why CAN'T Mike have a part time job? Three years ago, it was because he would meet individually with most members of the ministry team for an hour or two each week. His date-book was full of evangelism/discipleship appointments. He spent so much time one-on-one building into people that he didn't have time to work. Over the past two years, the "appointments" have become fewer, and people are beginning to be discipled by lay people of the ministry instead.
What I've noticed over my time on the team is that when Mike is meeting with a lot of people to pour into them...somehow Visions does better financially. People throw envelopes containing $2,000.00 in cash through the office window. Mysterious donors turn up. People offer to pay for cleaning supplies. When Mike isn't doing as much discipleship, and is mostly just there on the three Fridays he's speaking, not as much money comes in. I guess that what I'm saying is that sometimes it seems like God knows what Mike earned and pays him accordingly. The prophecy, miracles and such often aren't a direct result of Mike's work, but the work of the lay people, who would continue to minister even if Mike did take on a side job. Didn't even the apostle Paul make tents for a time being???
I'm not trying to make excuses for people who just don't give. People who go to Visions NEED TO GIVE. And as was witnessed at MEET THE NEED, the church DOES step in financially when and where it really counts. I guess that what I'm saying is that this is a complicated issue that's been around a long time and isn't going away soon...
God has ALWAYS provided for Visions. His people have never gone hungry. They've scraped by at times, 'cause he only gives us our daily bread...no more...no less...but He's never let a month of rent go by unpaid.
I'm assuming that was Linda as there was no name on that sucker...
I feel like a school teacher, "put your name on your work!"
I'm just being faceitious... but seriously. It's good to know it's not as black and white as I felt it was last friday. It's not like Mike was being guilt trippy or anything, just the idea of that place shutting down because people aren't stepping up would be enfuriating to me.
But you are right, now that I think about it. God is a lot bigger than our not listening to Him. He won't let His people starve or go homeless. He loves us and that means something to Him.
Still, chalk it up to the heat of the moment, I was a little mad...
Daniel
Yeah, it was me...sorry. Last time I put my name on a long freakin' response to something you said that I didn't 100% agree with, the comment ended up disappearing, and I wondered if I offended you...
Did you get the song I emailed you???
i guess sharpy that the best result would be to go into prayer and consider all the things that you had said were being considered at one point in time for options to raise money, cuz quite frankly a few of those ideas have crossed my mind as well cuz theyre good. and maybe finding someone who could pour into visions besides a already existing ministry team member for that particular purpose. but nonetheless the fact is that once maybe focused prayer and fasting happens then focused answers will be the result. not to say that hasnt happened in the past cuz quite frankly sharpy i dont know. but i do echo dans frustrations, as someone who is being helped by mikes ministry (i think you both know the sit.) i find it very hard to accept that visions might have to back down from such tenacious spiritual ministry in the greater lansing area for a simple lack of funding. i would love to help out in anyway i can. and i would say i would wait till somebody asks, but like mike t always says, if you build it it will come, or something like that, let me know what you think...mrt
Yeah, we need God. That's the moral of the story. Love God and seek Him.
Yeaaaaaaah we know it's true....
Daniel
what a shrug off answer legri!!
its so much more than that...but anyways i gottsta go cuz my boss charles is bein a punk- hes all like "lets go matthew" when he be sittin around all the time havin me do the work anyways! punk...long sigh...lol...talk later...mrt
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